Welcome back to The Art of Connecting Podcast. This is your host here, Haydynn, back with another episode for you all, and today we have JC Lund on the show with us here. This is my first time getting to meet jc actually a lot of the people I have on the show, I talk about how I got introduced. Well, a former guest on the show actually introduced us together and said, you need to talk to JC because she is a connector and would be good to come on the show. So JC we are so excited to get to have you here on the show today. And if you don't mind, if you just go ahead and introduce yourself real fast. Sure. I'm JC Lund. I own Tree Bird Branding. We're a creative agency here in Atlanta. We've been in operation for 12 years. We're pretty industry agnostic, but we work a lot in the hospitality and retail space, as well as multifamily and B2B just really creating kind of the universe of a brand for a business. So that's what we do. Awesome. Cool. And so you said you started about 12 years ago. Mm-hmm. What, what was it, what did you do before you got your started in your business? Yeah, so before that I was the creative director at another, at a PR agency. And so it wasn't fully brand focused. And then once I really figured out what I wanted to do it, I had to go on my own, my own path there. The nature of PR. And, and I love our, our, our PR partners that we work with, but the nature of PR is very fear-based. And so they're here to answer for every single, you know, issue someone could have with a company, right? And so that was kind of where Created creativity goes to Die. And so it was time to go do my own thing and, and really focus on our passion, which is branding. Yeah. Yeah. It's been really interesting going through my journey of, of building a brand. See my hat that I have on right now. It's my company, Acadia Capital. And it's not easy. It's a very, very tedious, long process and. So much can change over time. And, and it's like how do you continually keep a brand even with all of the different things that happen? And when is the time to rebrand as well? When is it time to, to make a change and you know, change it? So, yeah. It's, it's a really, well, first I hate to hear that it was tedious and long.'cause we try and make it, you know. Efficient and fun, right? It's a very emotional and, and powerful pro process. And, and yeah, brand should should have consistency. It has to have consistency, but it also needs to strategically evolve. You know, like the hot topic the other week was, you know, cracker Barrel and changing their logo and it was such a drastic change. And so my hot take on it was like, well, had they been making significant branding changes throughout the years. It wouldn't have been such a, you know, hot topic. And so yeah, it should always be evolving in a very thoughtful way for your audience. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So how did you decide to jump out on your own from, you know, being in a, a director role to go and start your own company? Yeah. Well spite really drives me. And I also really, you know, I wanted to do something hard. I wanted to go into entrepreneurialism. I also felt like, well, I can do, I can do anything I put my mind to. Let's go. And that's, that's work that's been true so far. You know, like the ups and downs of it. I wouldn't trade for anything. I like having ultimate control over you know, what, what we do and who we work on and you know, what we stand for, our core values, all of that. I really, that's important to me to have the, that control, you know, the ability to fire folks that, you know, they're not meeting the vibe. Check if like fir firing clients because like our, our internal team and the way that we work on things, it's so precious and important to me because when the vibes are right, we do, we can do amazing, amazing work. And we have had clients that have been with us this whole time and we get to continue to do a really amazing work with them. And so I like having that ability to, to make that happen for myself and the team. That's awesome. And, and so. Would love to kind of talk about how, as you built your company, you know, about some of the connections that kind of led you there when you were first getting started. It sounds like you already kind of were in a similar industry. You were in the marketing industry, but can you think of any, any types of meetings that you had or things you went to where that really gave you confidence to be able to step out and start your own thing? Yeah, well, something that, you know, you realize, I realize now that I didn't know then and, and it's something I try and tell people anytime they're about to make this kind of a leap. I was terrified when it was time to make the announcement for Tree Bird and to send that email out to everyone I knew. I had a whole meltdown over it and my husband was like, press the button. You know, like, what's wrong with you? It was the secret I was keeping for so long and I was just so afraid. You know, what if we fail, if it's just like, you know, all of those things. I found that people were coming out of the woodwork to work with me, and, and at the time it was just me. And of course we've grown since, but people were coming out of the woodwork to give us work. Just because they had been through a similar journey like entrepreneurs, like when someone is seeing that you're going into this journey, like I had people keeping me busy with stuff that I know they didn't even need, and they were so excited to support me. And so I think like already having good relationships. With people helps. And then the surprise of how much people wanna see you succeed. And then you've gotta take that and like, you know, grow upon that as well. And so we were able to get a lot of recommendations from our clients and kinda start to build out the, the network there. What do you think it is that causes a new entrepreneur to have that fear? You know, and, and. The fear of telling people what they're doing, because I've seen it over and over in people that I coach. Yeah. They're like, well, what I, I can't, I can't talk about this because it's not there yet. You know, I can't, I can't start sharing it with people because I'm not ready yet. Yeah. What do you, what do you think the, the true like background of that is in the, you know, kind of in the brain? Well, I think that's, that's human nature, you know, to just, you know, to be afraid to put yourself out there. I think that's completely natural. It's do you have the ability to just say like, screw it and I'm just gonna do this, and, you know, to, to get out of your comfort zone. And I think that's something that's really quite unique to entrepreneurs. I think a lot of people have a lot of big ideas and would like to go out on their own and, you know, everyone has a concept. It's, you know, the. The renegades that are saying like, you know, I'm, it's too much in me that even if I fail, it would've been worth putting this out there. Like, I have to put this out. Yeah. This has been a, an interesting, not necessarily argument, but conversation that I've been having with people. I'd love to your take on it. Yeah. Do you think that people are born entrepreneurs or they become entrepreneurs? Well, I think it can go, I think a little of column A and a little of column B. You know, I think some people, 100% have been born to be entrepreneurs. It's in them, it could be in their family. And then some people, I think entrepreneurialism is thrust upon them. And so I don't think that, I don't think it's one or the other, and I don't think one way is right or wrong. I think it just finds. This life path finds the people that needed to find it, right? Mm-hmm. And so how you get to that doesn't matter. Yeah. I just, I kind of have a personal mission for people to realize that, in my opinion, you're, you're not born with this. I, I, I was not born with this innate business sense that was bestowed upon me by God to, to, you know. I magically do what I've done. It's mm-hmm. It's with the help of God, you know, but it's like I had to say yes to so many things, to be able to be in the seat that I am. Mm-hmm. You know, on a, on a 1145, on a, on a Wednesday. Right. It's, it's not you know, I, I wasn't born into this. It wasn't a, none of my family are entrepreneurs. Right. Yeah. It's, they've supported me so much for me to be able to be here, but like I didn't grow up watching my dad run a huge successful company, you know? And so I, I think a lot of people psych themselves out of their own success because they hear someone say, well, you're born an entrepreneur, or you aren't, you know, you either have it or you don't. And I, I would. Are you with those people? Not, not, I don't wanna argue. I don't really love to argue, but I would love to like for them to realize that like almost every entrepreneur I've ever met at some point had a job. Even if they just worked at McDonald's for three weeks and they're like, screw this. I'm not gonna work at McDonald's. This sucks. Like, I'm gonna go start a company. I haven't met people like that, but I, I can't, I can't really think of anyone in my network that. All they ever did was start their own business. That was it. And they were just born, I know one person. Yeah, I know one person. And of out of like thousands, right? Like Right. So doesn't that beg the point that, that we're not born for, for this. And, and I hope, I don't wanna try to bend your perspective to see my, my viewpoint on this, but Yeah, I just, I really want to start a conversation around this is I, I mentor some college students in the real estate club at you can see, and I'm just like. It's so fun to watch their eyes. It's like, you know, their eyes get really big when I talk about this stuff. Like, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna hear people say that you either got it or you don't. And, and I, I just, I like to beg to differ and say, you know, you got it if you try, you know, if you, you got it. If you put in the effort to get it, like, that's it. Yeah, I agree. Okay. Great. Sorry for that little tirade there. I've been, it's just really been living on my mind recently, so I wanted to get your Well, I enjoyed it. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about branding and, and maybe try to provide some value for the listeners here around that, since you are an expert. Yep. And this can really apply to networking and, and building connections. What, what do you see the most common issue is on new clients that are coming in? With their brands, and I kind of wanna make it a little more specific. Let's say they already have, you know, a decent sized business. They're doing a million more year in revenue. What is like the most common error you see when, when clients first come to you? Yeah. A lot of times when people are coming to us, especially with an existing brand, they need an expansion or a rebrand is. There's an inconsistency across the board. And so like, I always like to go back to like, well, what is the whole point of branding to begin with? And it's to make a memory for people in their brain. And so that inconsistency of brand that, that's where we see people going wrong. You know, they let someone's niece or. Cousin or whoever run their social, and that's where they've killed the brand because it's so inconsistent. Another thing is that, you know, understanding like, okay, you know fonts have personalities and colors have feelings, like these things do matter, and that color represents 80% of a person's ability to recall your brand. And so when you're letting someone get creative in the brand guide. Like, you're just throwing money away. You're throwing money away. And, and the other side of it too is that typically, you know, a brand when it's first starting is kind of all about whoever the, the business owner is, right? Like, it represents me, this is me, this is my business, blah, blah. Okay, neat. But the, your audience is who matters. Your audience is the only that is who matters. They're your hero. So this needs to be a love letter to them. And so, you know, while someone's like logo or colors or something might be like, well, that's my favorite. Font or this, that's my favorite color. I love this color. I'm like, well, all right, well what does that represent and how do we make your audience be able to make an emotional connection to your brand?'cause that's what establishes trust and credibility. So what we wanna do is also look at like, okay, here's an example. Someone was asking me if they needed a website for their business because their competitors are just doing it on Facebook. They're able to just like have success. On Facebook and they didn't wanna have a website, they didn't wanna make that investment. When I asked them like, well, what's your business? They're like, well, we do hvac. So I was like, okay, on average, like, what's the typical engagement? Right? And so they were like, well, you know, a, a repair could be like$500, but like a replacement that's like 15 grand. And I was like, okay. So that's a significant amount of money to me. You know, I need to be able to trust you. That's like a huge amount of trust I have to put into you. You don't have a brand and you just wanna go on Facebook and tell people about it. I'm not gonna just give$15,000 to anybody. And also you need to look like everything else that inter I interact with in my life that represents$15,000 to me. Right. I was like, that's half a car. You know, like. So you need to look as polished as that. And so, you know, and I think that it's really easy when you're looking at dollars and cents in your budget of like, okay, where am I gonna make cuts or where am I not gonna invest? You're just, you're never gonna get to the level that you wanna be at because you don't, and it's all smoke mirrors, right? Like, you can look like a million bucks and not have a million bucks by being consistent and sophisticated in your brand. And so you know. Those, those are kinda the common mistakes that we see. I feel like a lot of times it almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy as well too. You know, you see, I've seen it happen where people have been like hustling hard, but they didn't have a good brand, right? Like, you see'em putting in all the work and then they rebrand to this super really nice brands like I I could give an example, like a real estate agent, right? They're like absolutely slaving away to sell, like. Three or four,$200,000 homes a month. Yeah. It rebrand like robust. Yeah, right. They rebrand. Yeah. Yeah. They rebrand to a luxury real estate agent and they start marketing like a friend of mine. She, she goes to open houses for large luxury properties, gets permission beforehand from the agent to go and do a promotional video, puts on her social media to try to bring a buyer. I say yes because they're like, they wanna sell the houses. So she is going to these two,$3 million mansions on the weekend, brings her videographer in, pays him a few hundred bucks, makes these videos, actually gets paid from Instagram. But it makes her, gives her the appearance that she knows luxury.'cause that's what she's around all day. Right. And she is becoming that person who knows luxury because she is putting herself around it. So yeah, you have to show people Interesting to watch that. Yeah, you have to show people you can't just, you know, put words on a page and say like, this is who we are and this is what we represent, that we are visual people. And so it must be shown. And, and I think we often forget too, like when after someone has an interaction with you and they really like you, what's the next I'll actually this little fun question, like, what's the next thing someone's gonna do after they leave and they had a good interaction with you and you're like, Hmm. Like Jason, what are they gonna do next? Oh, they're gonna go on our website, check us out. They're gonna there, they're gonna look you up. Yeah, they're checking us out. They're gonna Google you, right? Who do I know? Yeah. Yeah. So I met someone last night at my meetup and he was just puffing himself up, you know, and like, oh, I've got this, I've got that. I've da da da. And like, he came in from out state and I'm like, this guy, right? I, I don't know him. And I'm like. I was texting my executive assistant this morning. I was like, my red flags are going up when someone starts telling you about how much they do, you know, or how many offices they have, or how big their blah blah, blah is. Because it's like, if that's the first thing that they're doing, you know, just immediately like, like trying to like establish credibility, puffing themselves up. I'm like, I don't know about that. I gotta, I gotta. He's legit and just likes to talk. Maybe he isn't. I look up this guy's website, it is like the WordPress special, like it's, it looks terrible and you know, it, it doesn't, it, it was like not, not too. You know, I don't wanna put other people down here, but it's this is a great branding conversation. It's like if you are doing a lot of stuff, you want your branding to match it. If you go look up my website, acadia loans.com, you're going to see a website that we spent$10,000 on. It looks amazing. You know, we all the things work, you know, it's we have multiple tabs that give you information about our company. Yep. And did we have to do that? Probably not. But when someone goes and looks me up or looks my company up, they're not going to question our legitimacy, you know? Exactly. That's really important. Yeah. You've got it. Yeah. And, and also, I think hopefully, what, how, how does that make you feel? When, what does your barometer say when you're meeting somebody and all, you know, the first thing they're talking about is how big their company is. How do you feel about that? Well, yeah, I guess huh. I, I always just like everyone that I meet and so I've always given the benefit of the doubt. You know, I'm not so super skeptical just'cause I just love, I don't know, I just love being around people. But anyway, but then, yeah, when I, you know, it's, it's, okay, let me check you out. Let me see what you're into. And then it's it's a disappointment when I'm just like, ah. Flimflam again. You know, which is, and it's part of, it's just like, all right, if you want me to make an investment of my time into your, or refer you or hire you, but you're not willing to make that investment into your company. it's not happening. And so, yeah, it, it feels like a bait and switch, you know, and you're like, you're amazing. And it's just like, what are you doing over here? Yeah. And, i, I try to not get too specific, but the person who we're talking about might know I'm talking about if he listens to my podcast, but it happens to me all the time where, and I, I could be totally wrong. That guy could be everything and more that he says that he is. But I, I just personally of the connect, the connecting I've done, I've been connecting with people pretty much full time for three years. Be humble. You know, just get to know the other person, be more interested rather than being in, trying to be interesting. Mm-hmm. And that's how you, that's how you truly be an interesting person to others is yeah. Be curious, truly in your heart to be curious. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So I want to ask you in your, in your journey of growing your business, you mentioned there were people that just kind of came out of the woodwork, what, what do you think that's attributed to? Do you think it's you putting yourself out there for years while you were in your creative director role or, or not your, your director role in your previous company, or, you know what do you think the reasoning behind that is? Yeah, well, there's a couple things. First we're very good at what we do, and so, you know, I, I'm a designer, my husband is our writer, and then we have designers on the team. I'm not designing so much anymore, but back then it's just, we're very good. And so the quality of of work was there, but also, we're very organized and professional. And so, you know, we set our own deadlines, but we're always gonna meet'em. And, you know, just, I didn't even know that was an option to just completely bail on deadlines for people. And that's a rampant issue in the creative industry. Also communication, we're really big on communicating with our clients, you know we've always had project managers and, and things on board too because. I didn't want, I, it, it bothers me if the client are feeling like they have to check in with us on a project. And so because again, they're our heroes. We want our clients to have a really good experience with them. We want them to get the best work, but also have the best experience. And so I think that's what is why we have had so much support over the years.'cause that's just been who we have been from the very beginning is that not only are we the best at creative, we're also gonna be the best at the, you know, project management side too. That's great. Something I've seen that entrepreneurs that I, that I coach struggle with are properly valuing their work and what they, what they do. Mm-hmm. You know, they, they, their immediate knee jerk reaction is when a customer gives them resistance to reduce their price. Did you struggle with that at all when you were first getting started? Or did you always know we're the best, like we're gonna, we're gonna, this is a new feeling for me, it's only been the last couple of years and I'm just like, oh wait, we are the best at this. You know, this is why, you know, but absolutely. I you know, I undervalued our, our worth and our work. And I, and I allowed people to get in my head, but you know, just because they couldn't afford us didn't mean that, that we should reduce our costs. It just means that, you know, budgets are budgets and you know, we can't work on everything and we don't wanna work on everything. And I think in the beginning of the com, anyone that's starting their business, you have to take on every opportunity. That's how you grow. But then there is a point. That you will get to eventually of, okay, who are our, who are our ideal clients? What are we willing to do and what's the value of our work? You have that book to show, because in the beginning, you're not gonna have a ton of work to show, like, you know, having hu, you know, having hubris there. You can't just come out and be like, all right, it's, you know. Did you work for free at all when you were getting started? Did you ever do any like Absolutely free project? No, no. We'll do, we would do trade kind of stuff or we would do stuff for charity work, like charity organizations. We would do donated, things like that, but absolutely not. And that's just part of, I went to a very good creative school, it's called the Creative Circus, and that was just kind of put into us from the very beginning, like, spec work is bad for our industry and that I wanted to support not only myself. And, and my self worth, but the worth of the creative industry. And so no, we don't, we don't ever do work for favors, for free or for exposure. That's a laugh. Anytime someone says, oh, you're gonna get so much exposure. No, doesn't happen. Yeah. It's interesting though. Reason I ask that is there's, there have been, there have been some companies that have done work for me in my, in my businesses where. You know, they, they didn't charge me for it. And it's been very beneficial for them because of the recognition that they ended up getting. And I, I don't ever ask anyone to work for me for free. It's always been people coming, like saying, Hey, I, I want to do this for you. And, and I want to, to, you know, it's, I know it's gonna be beneficial for me and I know it'll help you.'cause clearly you're struggling with it. Mm-hmm. No one's doing it right now. Oh, hey there. It's me again. I know you expected Morgan Freeman to come on and talk about the biggest company in the world. Well, I'm sorry, but you get the next best thing. This show is sponsored by the company that I co founded, Acadia Capital, and acadia is a hard money lending fund originating loans in Southeast Tennessee and Northern Georgia on residential one to four unit renovation properties. We are regulation D five Oh six C fund and are actively seeking accredited investors. We provide fantastic first position real estate back returns. If you're ready to get your tired and lazy capital to work with a minimum 8 percent return, go to Acadia loans. com backslash invest. Not only do we accept standard investments, but we can also accept self directed IRAs and other self directed retirement accounts to take advantage of tax advantage investing. Thank you so much for listening to Art of Connecting now back to the show. But I mean, it's, it's been really interesting to watch like these people that, that, and I, I'm not saying that, I'm not trying to advocate that someone should go and work for free. But I think in my journey, just going out there and saying Hey, I, you don't even need to pay me. I just wanna learn, like, I just want to put your name with my name. One of my, one of my friends Kyle, he owns a large pressure washing company in town, and he offered to wash the Tennessee Aquarium, the CRE Discovery Museum here in Chattanooga. The IMAX theater, he does that for free. He donates it. He does it every quarter. But what that got him was now on every single door hanger we washed, the Creative Discovery Museum, the imax, you know, so it's, you know, it's interesting to watch how, how he's doing that. I think he's been on the show before he, it's just genius. That's very cool. Yeah. That's very cool. He came up with a name for it. We, I can't remember what we called it, but on the, on the show we did, we, we came up with a name for his, for his strategy of really attaching yourself to the brands that are your dream brands. Even if you can't land them as a client right now, figuring out what you can do for them for free to prove your value, but in it's a different points in your business. Like you wouldn't be doing that right now. Yeah. Because you're good. But when, when you're starting, I think. That can be a really amazing way to put your, put your name and put your, you know, to be able to say, Hey, you know, you see that I did that, you know? Yeah. Well, great. I wanna, I want to talk more about, connections aspect. Are you a member of eo? Is that how yeah. Are you an eo? Okay. So what, what has your experience with being in EO been like? And for those who are listening for the first time, have had several EO members on my show in the recent past. And it's the Entrepreneurs Organization where a group of like-minded business owners who are doing at least a million year in revenue get together all across the world. So. What has your experience been like in EO and, and what have kind of some of the benefits been to be in a, a network like that? Yeah. Well, for me, I didn't realize until I joined EO in the accelerator program, I didn't know I was lonely. Hmm. And so I, I, it just hadn't occurred to me. And like everyone in my life that I would talk about my business with are either. A W2 earner? No, no shame in that. But they don't understand the, the plight of the entrepreneur, or they're my employees and there's certain things that, I'm not gonna talk about with my employees. And so I just was, you know. All of the, the bits and pieces of Entrepr being an entrepreneur, I just kept that all to myself. I just thought that, you know, was my lot in life. And then someone had recommended the EO to me and I checked it out and immediately I was just like, oh my God. I had no idea that. I was lonely and that I, I wanted someone to just talk through these things with. And also any issue that I've ever brought to any of Owen in the eo, there's a solve, someone has already done this and so I'm here. I was, you know, just figuring things out on my own and. I got as far as I could. Right? And then, so but then when you find out about things like the EOS entrepreneur's operating system and you know, how you can structure your business you know, just things like I know about the feelings of colors. I am not a financial expert or an HR expert, or any of that stuff. And that now I have. I have unlimited people I can call on for any issue and if they can't solve it or you know, talk it through with me, they know somebody that I can talk it through to solve it. So that has been the most powerful connection for me. What I also realized too, is I can email people all day and night about tree bird branding, but that's not how you make connections and that. You know, once people get to know me and they get to see the work that we do, that's just a no brainer. They're either hiring us or they're referring us. And so that was like a great, that wasn't my intention for being a part of eo, but that's been a fantastic byproduct of it because of a relationship with someone that I have in Accelerator we work with. The largest company we've ever worked with, and it's been a phenomenal relationship, and it's because of a, per, a personal connection that he had to someone that happened to work in this. So like, that's been fantastic just, but for me, like, you know, as an entrepreneur in my journey, like just like having people to talk to about these things has been phenomenal. Something that I, I thought of is so many people struggle to invest in themselves and in a network. Because they think, oh, I, you know, everyone's trying to rip me off. You know, everyone is, you know, at, at what's EOA? It's like 3000 a year, right? Or is it maybe four? It starts at 300. Is 300 a month? No, 300,000 a year is, oh no. Like the cost to be in the group. Like what does it cost? Oh, the cost. Oh. I think it's like 20. Don't quote me on this, but I think Yeah, it might be, it's between 25 and 3000 for the year. Yeah. And. So many people that run a business that does$500,000, they struggle with, oh, I can't pay, we'll call it three grand. Maybe it's cheaper,$3,000 I can't pay. Well, I could just go to a networking event. Like why would I, why would I pay$3,000 to be a part of a group like this? And then they never go and they don't invest in themselves. And I see that happen a lot where people, even at large levels, why would I pay. I, I run an event. It's$250 to get in the room. It's, it's a two$50 dinner, but we, every single person there does a million dollars a year in revenue and it's in Chattanooga. Nothing else like this exists here. And you know, some people are like, I don't know, it's, it's an expensive ticket. Every single person in this room is doing a million a year. Some are doing 150 million a year, and you get to sit at the table with them, right? And I, I, I'm not even gonna try to put that through someone's head. If it, if it, if it doesn't make sense, I'm not gonna be the person to beat him over the head with the board that, and try to try to sell the value of being in the right room. But, and that's where my life has really been impacted, and I don't know about you being in the right room. Mm-hmm. That's where things really start to shift. Yeah, absolutely. That's how you actually make. Human connection, but if that's not valuable to you, then it's not valuable to you. It's not for everyone. EO is not for everyone. I've also looked into advisors. I, I can see why people would really like that community. It didn't feel like a right fit for me. It's just different, you know, but it's the right fit for a lot of people. Not doing anything is also the right fit for people. You know, it's, it's. And it's a carry your own bag kind of situation. It's like, well, you're gonna get out of it what you put into it in any sort of networking and business growth. And I think a lot of people are looking for quick fixes. So they're gonna invest in LinkedIn ads or they're gonna put a lot of money in SEO or whatever. And I always say well, when's the last time you hired a vendor for your company?'cause you saw a LinkedIn ad. But when's the last time that you hired a, a vendor for your company?'cause you knew them. Hmm. You know, and so most people are gonna say oh yeah, I knew them, or they were referred. You know, that's not because of a LinkedIn ad, just, it's, it's very rare. Some people have that figured out great. But I just think that's very rare, especially for, for business small businesses. It's all about relationships and you can't make a relationship via email. Can't be done. That's exactly right. Yeah. And, and your brand helps out a lot with that too. And, and, yeah. I think most people think of brand and things like Tide or, or ox or you know, whatever other brand there is out there looking at road right now and sure on my mics. But you also have a personal brand, like what do people think of you when you walk away, right? When someone looks at your Instagram. Who do they think you are? Right? Like, like what is the impression that's being made? And I think we often forget that. Like it's not just our company's brand, but also the representatives of the company create our brand. So what would you say is a good step for someone who's wanting to start building a personal brand? Because we hear so much about that. What, what would be a good first step to build a a personal brand? You know, it's that old adage dress for the job you want, not the one you have. And so when you look at your, how you are representing your company and like who your audience is, you need to look like them. And so whereas you know, there's been times in my life where I've had a nose ring and pink and purple hair. I'm talking to multimillion dollar business owners. You know, I have to look a certain way. I can't just walk in with you know, a pink mohawk anymore. My employees can, you know, but, and I like that it's okay. They can do whatever they want. You know, but I, I, it's all about all right, if I wanna be in that room, I need to look at, I need to look like the people in that room. And so it's the same thing with, you know, the way you put together your brand, the way you put together yourself, you need to, it's all about fitting in, in that. Price. Point. Point. Yeah. Yeah. It's so interesting the, I'm not wearing my Hawaiian shirt today. I usually wear a Hawaiian shirt every day. If you go and look at my Instagram after, oh, you match the color of my wall today. So, no, I'm, I'm about to be recording all day after this. So I've got about six Hawaiian shirts in my car. My old boss the car dealership that I sold cars, he said, dress for the job you want, not the job you have. Yep. I took that literally in my job. My dream job was being an old white dude on the beach hanging out because I made it. So I wear a Hawaiian shirt every day and khakis and some comfortable shoes. And it's so funny because like my mentor, one of my mentors, he hates it. He is a very, very successful businessman in Chattanooga. He, like, I saw him one day, I went over to, he owns a, a big hotel in, in Chattanooga and I went to his hotel and I met with him and wasn't wearing a suit the first time I'd ever seen him not wearing a suit. Again, this is the first time I've seen not wearing a suit. He said, I don't think I've ever seen you in a suit. And I was like, it was so funny. He's 75. So different, different, you know, era of business. But it's interesting that you, you mentioned that phrase that, that really kind of changed my life and I built my personal brand. I'm the Hawaiian shirt guy when I, if someone sees me right now that they know, that knows me, where's your Hawaiian shirt? Every time I go out, if I'm wearing a t-shirt. Sometimes I just wanna wear a t-shirt. But I love how you tie that into what does your audience want you to look like, right? I work with real estate investors and they couldn't, they don't want you to wear a suit. If you're wearing a suit, you don't get your hands dirty, you know, you don't, I might be over at my storage facility later cleaning out a gutter. You know, it's like they don't, they don't want you to be that guy that's afraid to get his hands dirty and go get on the job. But if you're, you're talking, if I'm, when I go meet with Ken, I usually dress up, you know, I put my, if I know I'm meeting with him that day, I would go and throw my polo on my khakis because, you know, you, you dress the part for who you're meeting with and you have to kind of have that, that knowledge. And I think that that is so great to like mm-hmm. Build your personal brand around who your audience is. I think that's really. Yeah, I had a boss, her favorite color was orange, and so I had a whole bunch of orange clothes all of a sudden because I wanted her to like me, you know? And so, especially when I had my reviews or whatever, I'd be wearing orange and then, and so, you know, it's, it's, yeah, dress for, yeah, dress for the occasion, you know? Yeah. I love that. Well, we're coming up on our time here, so I want to ask you our final question. And that is what is the connection to a person or group of people that has changed the trajectory of your life or career? Yeah, I mean, I think we kind of touched on it before too, was eo that has changed everything for me. We work on much higher budget projects. The organization is so much more like. Tree bird itself is so much more organized because of that relationship. And so I just have a whole lot more time on my hands to do what I wanna do. Mm-hmm. And so that's great. So EO kind of changed me there, but it's also opened me up to other opportunities too. So I'm both, I'm in both EO and Vistage because I, you know, you get different things outta different groups. I'm finding that, that I get. A lot out of those personally, but also professionally. And so I get to sit at tables and be in meetings with people that I would've never met with before because of those connections. And, you know, you gotta do work, you gotta do good work first, right? And then and then the doors will open up for you. But then to think like, okay, if I just do good work and then, you know, email some people, it doesn't happen that way. So yeah, put yourself out there. Great invite. Yeah. Yeah. That one of the largest developers we have in Chattanooga, you can call your, he was on a panel last night at my, in my real estate meetup that I run, and he said I, he, he railed me hard on the question that I came up with, and it was kind of along the lines of real, a lot of real estate is about who you know, not what you know. And he said, he was like, that is not true. He was like, I, I forget what he said. He is like, I vetoed that question, or something like that. He was like, I wouldn't be sitting up here today if I didn't know my stuff. If, if I just knew the right people and didn't know what I was doing, I wouldn't be sitting here. Agree. And I was so glad that he said that. Yeah. Because it's like, I agree. I also in a sense, not disagree, but I think it's both. And not necessarily like it's if you know a decent amount, but you also know the right people. You can go really far. Go real far. Yeah. But if you know a lot, but you don't know the right people, you're gonna be spinning your wheels, in my opinion. Yeah. So I agree. But we, we all can have our own opinion. But yeah, so I love that advice. That's wonderful. Mm-hmm. Well, JC if people wanna learn more about your company or, you know, maybe wanted to learn about working with you, what would be the best place for them to find out more about what you do and get in contact? Yeah, you go to our website, tree bird branding.com. It's fun. So go check out our work. You can email me right from there. You know, we don't, we don't hide anything or bury anything, but yeah, that's the stop. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show today and it's my pleasure. Yeah, look forward to getting keep up and I'll probably see at some EO events, hopefully in the, in the near future. I hope so too. Yeah. Well guys, if you're still here listening, I just want to tell you a huge thank you. It's such a gift to be able to do this show and to be able to talk to amazing entrepreneurs and get to hear their stories and get to share that with you. So if you're here at the end of the episode, I do have one favorite to ask you. I've just given you 40 minutes of value. If you can go and give me a five star rating review wherever you're listening to your show, it truly helps the podcast grow. And if you learn something out of this, share this with a few friends that you think would learn something as well. So with that being said, thanks for listening to the Art of Connecting. I'll see you on the next show.